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Post by bobstyles on Dec 17, 2011 11:05:17 GMT
1) It has come to the Committee’s attention that the motor rules for stock mini class are being abused by some members. The rules state a Tamiya 540 silver can kit motor but some members are using alternatives that although they look like a silver can are not. It is in fact quite easy to spot the offenders as their cars are achieving mini modified class times. This is completely against the spirit of the stock class, and we are now receiving repeated complaints about the speed of some people’s cars in this class – if you want to drive faster then join the modified class. Unfortunately for us,( the committee ), time is limited on a race night for more than cursory scrutineering, and as many of the alternatives such as the Ansmann and the Mardave gt motors look very similar they can slip through. We have decided therefore to change the rule to a “HPI SATURN 27T” motor. This is readily identifiable due to the labelling, is very consistent on performance (silver can Tamiyas are not) and only costs in the order of £6 for a motor. This will benefit everyone who wants to run in a true stock class – closer racing and lower costs. The new rule will take effect from the 6th January when we return. The club will have a stock of 10 motors available on the night and Stuart Parnell has a stock at Lesro to buy beforehand. Those members who turn up without will be asked to purchase a new one from us on the night. Obviously the change over may take a few weeks to fully filter through to all members, and so we ask you to bear with us through this transition.
2) The novice class rules only recommend the use of a silver can motor – this will also be changed to the Saturn 27T. With the reduced numbers on some nights, we have to combine novice and stock so to have a novice running a fast motor would be nonsensical. 3) The modified mini class is to change to an open motor rule to bring it in line with the outlaw class that many of the club members race in other championships. We have found that a Saturn 20T in the right hands on our small tracks can still beat a 10.5 t brushless, and in fact at Chippenham in this class the winning car uses a 17.5t even though there are motors as low as 6.5t being attempted.
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Post by alan on Dec 17, 2011 17:38:45 GMT
Whilst I agree with the points above I feel it would have been nice to have had a disscussion about the proposed changes with the members that attend each week. This could easily have been covered after our last club meeting.
I feel on our small track 17.5t brushless in more than enough for mini mod.
Just my 2p worth !
Alan
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shane
Full Member
Posts: 43
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Post by shane on Dec 17, 2011 18:30:10 GMT
second that alan,why should one person have the say and not invite the people who race there to make the decision
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Post by stuweatherman on Dec 17, 2011 18:38:50 GMT
Its not a one person decision as the commitee discussed it. And as has been proven there isn't an advantage to running a 17.5 to 10.5 or 20t saturn. I managed to put an M05 2nd on the grid with a 20t saturn compared to all the rest running TOP mini's running anything from a 17.5 to a 10.5.
As for the mini stock those rules have been brought in as people have been taking advantage of the lack of scrutineering, this was a rule that the bransgore club brought in and made the racing a lot lot closer.
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Post by bigfatmole on Dec 17, 2011 18:46:26 GMT
Trust me, an open motor limit really is not an issue. Those who try and go gun hoe will suffer in more than one way. The secret with any front wheel drive car is to minimise wheelspin to allow faster acceleration. My mini runs a 17.5t with punch turned down to about 30% ( it's actually quite gutless ) but absolutely maximises acceleration exiting a corner. This also greatly reduces the tyre wear as the tyres are never hotter than Luke warm after 5mins they are at their hottest when I start a race. Even with this rule change a 17.5 is all that is required to win a race and is also much kinder on the transmission , I for one will not feel the need to upgrade the motor. If you want to go faster my advice is don't do it with a faster motor as it really won't help, just try slowing it down using the punch adjustment on your esc.
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Post by bobstyles on Dec 17, 2011 19:23:10 GMT
Don't know where you get the idea that it is one person's decision. You as members elected a committee who discuss options and make decisions on your behalf. If you want a say then put yourself up at the next committee elections and take on such decisions and all the other responsibilities that go with being a committee member.
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Post by bobstyles on Dec 17, 2011 19:37:56 GMT
We have another proposal before the committee to restrict the mini mod motor for trophy nights and championships.
The mini mod rule change is to help our drivers in other competitions have a level playing field.
We found for years in Tamiya eurocup that the Brits ran far more restrictive rules for their racing, only to send our best to the European and World championships at a disadvantage because the other countries were running to different rules that just happened to match with the European and World ones.
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Post by StuWebb on Dec 17, 2011 20:31:32 GMT
I feel on our small track 17.5t brushless in more than enough for mini mod. I quite agree however as pointed out above some Championships do not have the restriction. It was felt that even though it has been proven that the faster motors are not an advantage on our track, members would benefit from at least being able to test setups before attending these events rather than going in cold and others having a head start. To be honest I thought this change would go with little comment and more would question the 27T Saturn change!
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Post by MonkeyNuts on Dec 18, 2011 9:34:48 GMT
Personally it doesn't bother me, but I can see that if people are looking at changing to Mini-Mod or come to the club to run the class, they could be put off by the fact that it is a open motor limit. Also, if this is to comply with the rules at Chippenham does that mean that the rules will be changed again to comply with the SPC-UK when that starts? Seeing that alot of club members are thinking of doing that too.
Liam
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Post by steve.e on Dec 18, 2011 9:52:49 GMT
my feelings are that the committee have made a fair compromise in a difficult situation
1) saturn 27 t in stock is only half the price of some of the hopups available for the mini so shouldn't really be an issue
2) going to open motors with the mini mod saves racers who think they are at a disadvantage through not having a gen 3 speedo with the choice of a faster motor
my only concern with the open motor rule with mini mod is the safety of the younger marshals as it difficult to buy steel toecap boots for youngsters
just my thoughts
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Post by bobstyles on Dec 18, 2011 13:36:53 GMT
Liam thats the whole point - with an open motor rule you can run whatever motor coincides with another championship you are running. If i do spcuk then i will test with a saturn 20 in the car.
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Post by peterloveless on Dec 18, 2011 15:48:36 GMT
my only concern with the open motor rule with mini mod is the safety of the younger marshals as it difficult to buy steel toecap boots for youngsters Steve, I am sure the touring cars are much faster than a mini mod so there should be no increased risk to injury than there is already.
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Post by MonkeyNuts on Dec 18, 2011 16:00:39 GMT
Liam thats the whole point - with an open motor rule you can run whatever motor coincides with another championship you are running. If i do spcuk then i will test with a saturn 20 in the car. Ok, point taken. Liam
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Post by kevinthegerbil on Dec 19, 2011 12:48:04 GMT
"It is in fact quite easy to spot the offenders as their cars are achieving mini modified class times."
I disagree with this Comment, On a good meeting I can be up to the lap times of some of the Mini mod cars but I can swear that I am running a Tamiya Kit Silver Can Motor (4 hole Johnson) coming out of a 15 year old Blitzer Beetle. That is the trouble with Kit motors, Tamiya changed the suppliers and specs throughout the years. I heard that the motors that come in the TT01 kits are actually 35 Turn!
I'm for bringing in tighter controls for the motor, but now I have to buy 3 motors so Alison and Carolyn can still run in the novice class.
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Post by stuweatherman on Dec 20, 2011 9:15:37 GMT
I'm for bringing in tighter controls for the motor, but now I have to buy 3 motors so Alison and Carolyn can still run in the novice class. 3 motors = £17.60 when a johnson motor from Tamiya costs £18.50. We brought this ruling in at Bransgore and it has made the racing a lot closer, its now not about knowing which type of silver can is the quickest or how to run it in to get the most performance. Its now down to driving skill!! Surely its about having a good close race rather than driving off into the sunset because you know how to tweak a johnson silver end belled motor or you stick in a mardave 24t??
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Paul B
Junior Member
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Post by Paul B on Dec 26, 2011 9:55:29 GMT
Are there any proposals to split M05's and M06's in stock as the M06 is obviously the faster car?
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Post by bobstyles on Dec 26, 2011 12:56:26 GMT
nothing proposed at the moment Paul - only logical change would be to put M06 into mod class but this sems a bit unfair on those owners who want stock speed.
we would welcome some feedback on this from M06 owners
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shane
Full Member
Posts: 43
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Post by shane on Dec 26, 2011 14:17:31 GMT
do you honestly want my driving in mod?was fed up when my son moved to mod and all he got was moaned at cause he was in the way,where do people start ?
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Post by shaun on Dec 26, 2011 14:21:36 GMT
well I for one would'nt race in the mod class with my m06 , for one, with the ammount of power being used in the mini mod cars at the moment , i feel it would take the fun out of driving an mo6 with a much more powerfull/ punchy motor and trying to compete to a certain degree .. but an mo6 with a stock can motor is quite nice , but making them race in mini mod , would'nt go down to well for me !! and im sure some would agree , we need to get more members racing down dmcrc , before we start changing classes ... but i will just say , that changing the silver can to the hpi 27t , gets my vote , all day long !!
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Post by bobstyles on Dec 26, 2011 19:29:46 GMT
Shane they start in the stock class and don't move up to mod until they are proficient.
Shaun - well put argument that really backs up what we were thinking anyway.
At the end of the day different cars are going to be quicker than others - this has always been the case in all classes - so just because Tamiya bring out the M06 should we be running around ringing our hands.
We can't possibly keep reconsidering classes everytime there is a new car out.
All we want to do is keep a basic stock class of racing with a control motor and using chassis that are of similar performance - the nearest we are ever going to get with that is to make it a Tamiya mini class.
The M05 car is quicker than an M03 but that hasn't stopped people using them.
Sorrry to waffle on but thats how i see it.
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Post by stuweatherman on Jan 3, 2012 20:47:31 GMT
Spoke to HPI today and unfortunately their delivery of 27t saturns has been delayed till the 17th, with another deliver due on the 23rd. I have run out of the motors due to the club purchasing 10 from me, so those needing the motors the 1st couple of meeting will have to purchase from the club.
I have got 15 on order but can up this amount should the club run out also. Sorry to those who have put in pre-orders with us at Lesro but the information I had up until today was that they were due in to me this friday!!. Again apologies and the stock levels will be sorted over the next few weeks.
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Post by bobstyles on Jan 4, 2012 15:35:48 GMT
aaagggh best laid plans and all that !!
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Post by kevinthegerbil on Jan 4, 2012 22:58:43 GMT
Spoke to HPI today and unfortunately their delivery of 27t saturns has been delayed till the 17th, with another deliver due on the 23rd. I have run out of the motors due to the club purchasing 10 from me, so those needing the motors the 1st couple of meeting will have to purchase from the club. I have got 15 on order but can up this amount should the club run out also. Sorry to those who have put in pre-orders with us at Lesro but the information I had up until today was that they were due in to me this friday!!. Again apologies and the stock levels will be sorted over the next few weeks. Agghh, I got some motors on order with Lesro's. I guess we can race with our existing Silver-can motors this week? If not, I won't bother coming down from Swindon to race.
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Post by stuweatherman on Jan 4, 2012 23:11:33 GMT
I believe it will be ok as the committee don't expect everyone to know that there has been a rule change on the first week back.
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Post by bobstyles on Jan 5, 2012 14:16:54 GMT
did say in original post that we expect a transition period so ok to run with silver can if you really can't spend £6 on the night for a new one.
you will be expected to do so the next time though
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Post by bobstyles on Jan 7, 2012 8:57:23 GMT
thanks to all in the stock class for embracing the new motor rule last night. there were certainly no issues with speed. we have a stock of 6 motors left if anyone needs one next week
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Post by stuweatherman on Jan 20, 2012 14:53:57 GMT
27t Saturns are now back instock so anyone needing one I will have them on me tonight.
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Post by bobstyles on Feb 5, 2012 22:35:52 GMT
Now that we are into February those members who were given some leeway over the Saturn 27 rule for stock are reminded that they are expected to have changed over.
Regarding the open motor rule for the modified class - it has been decided that now that the CWIC championship is out of the way that we should revert back to a 17.5t motor limit in order to be fair to those club members who did not compete at CWIC.
As previously mentioned it was our intention to run a 17.5t limit for the summer championship so this is just starting a bit earlier.
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