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Post by Timmay on May 15, 2013 20:16:12 GMT
Evening all,
It been brought to the committee's attention, that there has been a question relating to the use of motor and battery combos in the supastox class
As we had a committee meeting last night we have taken the decision for us to follow the rules that the BRCA use for the gt12 class as they have done all the testing for motors and battery combs.
Will try and get those rule posted on the fourm in the next day or so for you all to look at. This should make it fair for all.
Tim.
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Post by stuweatherman on May 15, 2013 21:58:46 GMT
Just a point on those rules tim, the BRCA didn't make rules to suit all drivers so I believe now those rules state that its single cell only and not how they originally allowed 1s or 2s!
Also BRCA rules aren't always accurate as stuff like the approved list state that products must be admitted by a certain time and be commercially available from a UK supplier but if you look on some of the battery and motor lists there are stuff listed that can only be got from HK suppliers.
As in previous years like the touring car rules the BRCA doesn't always set rules that benefit all just a few (mainly companies)
What was wrong with the previous rules that the club was running??
2s lipo 21.5 blinky esc or 27t saturn
1s lipo or 4 cell 13.5 with fixed timing, blinky esc or 20t saturn.
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Post by stuweatherman on May 16, 2013 8:49:19 GMT
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Post by martinyoung on May 16, 2013 9:43:21 GMT
Hi Stuart, Can you explain why you think the motor and batteries are limited with these? The intention is we generally want to follow these rules with regards to cell and motor combo's. We wont worry about cells not being available in the UK statements. As i read the rules state: 13.5 is 3.7v 1s Lipo 21.5 is 7.2 2s Lipo G2 motors are also 4.8v 4cell (which is aimed i would think at mardaves.) Generally as we run now but with the exception of the brushed mardave g2 motor set ups. With regards to motors the 13.5 list is very comprehensive as it also covers TC racing only exclusion i can see is the Corally Pro Red and as for the 21.5 list is just a suggestion. The list given in the appendixes for both motors and lipo's are examples only and the statement after says either 'suggested' or 'are not limited to' so they look open to me. If I'm reading it incorrectly then please let me know. |
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Post by stuweatherman on May 16, 2013 10:37:23 GMT
Appendix Three – 21.5 motors allowed – (Construction) Rule 3.2
21.5t motors which have locked or fixed mechanical timing (ideally from the EB list) are suggested. For example:
HobbyWing / Xerun “Stock” 2.15t (part number 90040150/1)
SpeedPassion Ultra Sportsman V2 21.5t (Part Number SPF21V2)
SpeedPassion Ultra Sportsman V3 21.5t (Part Number SP00008)
Novak SS Pro 21.5t (Part Number 3421)
Losi Xcelron 21.5t (Part Number LOSB9409)
The Corally Pro Red motor is specifically excluded. If a model is chosen that does have a degree of mechanically
adjustable timing it is up to the driver to prove that the timing is set to zero degrees.
(Intent – that the 21.5 motors are not used with mechanical timing advanced as this will give a performance advantage
over the 13.5/1S combinations. It is intended that use of 2S cells simplifies installation, not gives a performance
advantage.)
Appendix Four – Additional cells allowed – (Construction) Rule 5.1
Micro off-road cells may include but are not limited to –
Intellect 1800/30C (Part Number CC2S1800)
MaxTraxx 2000 (O-MXX120)
Orion ORI14147
Venom VEN15023
SPC 2500/30C
ProTek PTK-LPH-1600-2S40
DuraTrax DTCX 1600 etc.
“Shorty” Cells may include but are not limited to
Ipower RLP4400R7-2S
Nosram SCH-NR99941
Reedy AS306
So if you take this list plus look at the EB lists some of the motors people are currently using would be considered illegal.
I just wondered why there had been a need to update the supastox rules as they were working ok?
If anything novice drivers needed looking at as NEW novice drivers are in with drivers who should now not be in novice as have been there several years and won several championships.
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Post by martinyoung on May 16, 2013 10:50:52 GMT
Hi Stuart I think you missed the point I was trying to make, these rules don't limit to the motors and cells to the appendix list you have attached. Please see sections below that are marked in red from the attached appendix list. It is only our intention to make the class as fair as possible to all who wish to race and the BRCA have tested motor / cell combos so the performances are as similar as possible. Appendix Three – 21.5 motors allowed – (Construction) Rule 3.2 21.5t motors which have locked or fixed mechanical timing (ideally from the EB list) are suggested. For example: HobbyWing / Xerun “Stock” 2.15t (part number 90040150/1) SpeedPassion Ultra Sportsman V2 21.5t (Part Number SPF21V2) SpeedPassion Ultra Sportsman V3 21.5t (Part Number SP00008) Novak SS Pro 21.5t (Part Number 3421) Losi Xcelron 21.5t (Part Number LOSB9409) The Corally Pro Red motor is specifically excluded. If a model is chosen that does have a degree of mechanically
adjustable timing it is up to the driver to prove that the timing is set to zero degrees. (Intent – that the 21.5 motors are not used with mechanical timing advanced as this will give a performance advantage over the 13.5/1S combinations. It is intended that use of 2S cells simplifies installation, not gives a performance advantage.) Appendix Four – Additional cells allowed – (Construction) Rule 5.1 Micro off-road cells may include but are not limited to – Intellect 1800/30C (Part Number CC2S1800) MaxTraxx 2000 (O-MXX120) Orion ORI14147 Venom VEN15023 SPC 2500/30C ProTek PTK-LPH-1600-2S40 DuraTrax DTCX 1600 etc. “Shorty” Cells may include but are not limited to Ipower RLP4400R7-2S Nosram SCH-NR99941 Reedy AS306 |
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Post by martinyoung on May 16, 2013 12:10:25 GMT
So if you take this list plus look at the EB lists some of the motors people are currently using would be considered illegal. I just wondered why there had been a need to update the supastox rules as they were working ok? If anything novice drivers needed looking at as NEW novice drivers are in with drivers who should now not be in novice as have been there several years and won several championships. Hi Stuart You modified your post as i was replying so initially didn't see this. The rules state 'ideally on the EB list' doesn't say has to be. So no ones motor as far as i know will be illegal. If you know differently please let me know. Stuart the rule changes as we see them are minor and it only affects brushed motor from our current rules. We felt the need to clarify the rules so everyone is aware of what motors and combos they can run, that's all. The committee has discussed the Novice class and rules and this will be clarified in due course. Hope that answers your questions Martin |
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Sam E
Junior Member
Posts: 19
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Post by Sam E on May 16, 2013 15:32:24 GMT
I agree with Stuart regarding our old rules. These new ones have put me off changing classes because I would need to buy either two batteries for a 13.5T just to get through the night or buy a 21.5T motor and ESC combo. I wanted to change because almost everything is cheaper (tyres, shells etc) but now I can't use my current speedo or motor. My Dad and I are also getting bored and aren't enjoying the club as much anymore so changing classes was a chance to try and have fun. To be honest, I think this defeats the object of the SupaStox, being cheap.
Just my two pence worth.
Sam E.
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Post by martinyoung on May 16, 2013 16:05:35 GMT
Hi Sam,
What motor combo were you planning to run before we mentioned the GT12 rules?
Martin
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Sam E
Junior Member
Posts: 19
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Post by Sam E on May 16, 2013 18:01:09 GMT
I was hoping to run either a Saturn 20T or 27T with the speedo from my Mini. Jamie Traylor told me that a Saturn 20 on 2 cell would be too fast so I think a 27 would have been the choice. The main reason for running a brushed motor was because I could use a 2 cell battery and I could charge it after every race instead of having to buy two 1 cell batteries just so I could run all the races (4200mah vs 3200mah). I'll have to talk to my Dad about what we can do.
Cheers,
Sam E.
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dar
Full Member
Posts: 27
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Post by dar on May 16, 2013 19:32:19 GMT
Just been having a quick read
I found the gt12 rules a mare while sorting the SICC
In the end went for the 2s 21.5 zero degree timing on motor
And 1s 13.5 as I read it there was nothing about motor timing on 13.5
Both on blinky
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dar
Full Member
Posts: 27
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Post by dar on May 16, 2013 19:33:29 GMT
But will say that was as I read it and not saying its 100% right
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Post by Timmay on May 16, 2013 20:32:03 GMT
Right it seems that this has become a bit of a issue that was never the intention the idea was for us to make the class easier for us to police and make sure it was clear and fair for everyone by using a set of rules that work for the brca. So along side these rules we would like the ablity for racers to be able to run a 2 cell battery with a 27t Saturn motor. We hope this sorts out any problems.
Cheers Tim... sorry for the confusion
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Sam E
Junior Member
Posts: 19
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Post by Sam E on May 16, 2013 21:15:01 GMT
Cool, cheers guys, that's probably what I'll run... If I can find a Supastox.  Cheers, Sam E |
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